Thank you for writing this and pointing out Hollywood’s endless list of painful portrayals of Japan and the Japanese, Matt.
Glad you mentioned Mickey Rooney. His performance as Yunioshi in Breakfast at Tiffany’s, however brief it may have been, made it impossible for me to enjoy the otherwise wonderful movie when I first saw it many decades ago.
It took me many years before I finally managed to see Lost in Translation in full. The othering and infantilizing of many of the Japanese characters made me turn off the movie in disgust after just a few minutes each time I tried to watch it. I never quite understood why so many people liked this movie so much.
The first Shogun series started a fascination with Japan in the U.S. and other countries that lasted several years. It is going to be extremely interesting to see what effects this Shogun will have.
I was just discussing that with someone else! Many (including Clavell himself) trumpeted the 1980 Shogun as a watershed moment in US-Japan relations, but none of that stopped the Japan bashing of the decade to follow. So I see both Shoguns more as reflections of their times than catalysts for change.
I tend to agree, Matt. It did indeed not seem to have any immediate political or diplomatic effects. I do believe that it gave rise to a cultural curiosity about Japan that hadn't really been there before. I can't think of any other novel or TV series that so accurately mark the transition period between seeing Japan as a (defeated) enemy nation, and a nation with a culture worth knowing more about for its own merits. Over the years that curiosity slowly grew.
It absolutely must have humanized the Japanese for American readers. Shogun arrived right as the West was reevaluating Japan as a peaceful nation, and it wasn't only Clavell -- narrative nonfiction like Robert Whiting's classic "The Chrysanthemum and the Bat" (1977) and academic books like Ezra Vogel's "Japan as Number One" (1979) were bestsellers, too. Really interesting time in US-Japan relations to be sure. Today, we're already familiar with Japan in so many ways. I hope the new miniseries' success unlocks more Japan-set content. Maybe a Pure Invention miniseries? One can dream! :)
"Pervs in bed"? Having only ever seen that one "Lost in..." movie you mention, the expression surprised me, not recalling any beds therein at all (other than the hotel one the main character slept in), let alone any "pervs". But now that we're 'there'. do you explore that particular aspect of the Japanese scene anywhere? With one of the lowesr rape stats on the planet (and *please* nobody tell me that's only because US soft power hasn't defined rape properly *for* them yet!), it's my hunch that Japan's acceptance of the 'abnormal' in sexuality contributes very greatly to its harmony and remarkable absence of widespread violence.
Thankyou also for including the link to that 1981 NYT longform piece - what a read that one is!
There is a scene involving a callgirl sent to Bill Murray's character's room, where she begs him to "rip her stockings," with the added "joke" of her having a hard time pronouncing the "r," yet another tired trope on top of the rest.
And I'd take that stat with a huge grain of salt. Reported sex assaults do not equal actual sex assaults. The fact that all-women trains are needed to keep female riders safe from unwanted touching, and the constant messaging to speak up if you're a victim, speaks volumes on that front.
I'd also suggest that what many Westerners see as "abnormal" is actually what a lot of locals see as "abnormal" too. It is largely a quirk of law that the portrayals of sex are what they are in Japan, rather than any kind of fundamental variance in cultural mores. The fact the West has appropriated so many terms from Japanese porn, often incorrectly (like "hentai," among others) is a testament to that.
See Matt i just fail to get that "reported" vs "actual" riff. Is not the "actual" what whoever claims it *wants* to be true? IOW nothing more than pure speculation and presumption?
I've spent plenty of time in Japan and have never seen many femmes clamouring to get on the female only carriage!
I for one hope the second season veers closer rather than further to the history the fiction is based on. Borrow a bit less CGI and a bit more Taiga Drama.
You’ve written here and in the NYT about the worthiness of the production & performance praise and the re-adaptation to suit a fuller portrayed Japan - and all of that I and most of the world agrees with - but did anyone else catch some of the awkward or clumsy or over the top (or all three) story nubs that could have and probably should have been smoothed over?
- the guy about to kill himself with his big sword in the first episode instead of drowning
- the ham-handedness of setting up and then using earthquakes as a foil
- when Toranaga suddenly gets sick 🤒 and were meant to see it as strategy???
- the swimming / diving off the boat scene to end an episode to bond?
- the slippage at the onsen rocks when Toranaga’s son was trying to kill the Toranaga’s brother?
- Blackthorn going to work on the rock garden after the gardener is killed?
- Mariko’s decision to kill herself by standing in front of the exploding door which, somehow, is supposed to save the others in the room by blowing up her body????
- how sometimes they had to walk from the castle to the Harbor in Osaka but for some weird reason go through a forest???? When it looks like they would just walk through the town?
My guess is that the collective viewed have just let all this wonkiness slide since the show had so much going for it
It’s also possible that I’ve simply drunk too much tea this time and am finally fully out of touch.
There is a lot of editorializing for dramatic effect, that's for sure. William Adams, the model for Blackthorne, didn't get his "Anjin" moniker until well after the events of the book, for another thing.
And I'm just praying the editorialization improves for Season 2 so my eyes get a break from rolling and I can get as immersed in the story as everyone else back home (I'm too new to Japan to have any lukewarm takes about other cultural things but I'll tip my hat to the expertise of the M.Alts of the world and be grateful that with cultural hurdles cleared we can work on narrative tomfoolery next).
Thank you for writing this and pointing out Hollywood’s endless list of painful portrayals of Japan and the Japanese, Matt.
Glad you mentioned Mickey Rooney. His performance as Yunioshi in Breakfast at Tiffany’s, however brief it may have been, made it impossible for me to enjoy the otherwise wonderful movie when I first saw it many decades ago.
It took me many years before I finally managed to see Lost in Translation in full. The othering and infantilizing of many of the Japanese characters made me turn off the movie in disgust after just a few minutes each time I tried to watch it. I never quite understood why so many people liked this movie so much.
The first Shogun series started a fascination with Japan in the U.S. and other countries that lasted several years. It is going to be extremely interesting to see what effects this Shogun will have.
I was just discussing that with someone else! Many (including Clavell himself) trumpeted the 1980 Shogun as a watershed moment in US-Japan relations, but none of that stopped the Japan bashing of the decade to follow. So I see both Shoguns more as reflections of their times than catalysts for change.
I tend to agree, Matt. It did indeed not seem to have any immediate political or diplomatic effects. I do believe that it gave rise to a cultural curiosity about Japan that hadn't really been there before. I can't think of any other novel or TV series that so accurately mark the transition period between seeing Japan as a (defeated) enemy nation, and a nation with a culture worth knowing more about for its own merits. Over the years that curiosity slowly grew.
It absolutely must have humanized the Japanese for American readers. Shogun arrived right as the West was reevaluating Japan as a peaceful nation, and it wasn't only Clavell -- narrative nonfiction like Robert Whiting's classic "The Chrysanthemum and the Bat" (1977) and academic books like Ezra Vogel's "Japan as Number One" (1979) were bestsellers, too. Really interesting time in US-Japan relations to be sure. Today, we're already familiar with Japan in so many ways. I hope the new miniseries' success unlocks more Japan-set content. Maybe a Pure Invention miniseries? One can dream! :)
"Pervs in bed"? Having only ever seen that one "Lost in..." movie you mention, the expression surprised me, not recalling any beds therein at all (other than the hotel one the main character slept in), let alone any "pervs". But now that we're 'there'. do you explore that particular aspect of the Japanese scene anywhere? With one of the lowesr rape stats on the planet (and *please* nobody tell me that's only because US soft power hasn't defined rape properly *for* them yet!), it's my hunch that Japan's acceptance of the 'abnormal' in sexuality contributes very greatly to its harmony and remarkable absence of widespread violence.
Thankyou also for including the link to that 1981 NYT longform piece - what a read that one is!
There is a scene involving a callgirl sent to Bill Murray's character's room, where she begs him to "rip her stockings," with the added "joke" of her having a hard time pronouncing the "r," yet another tired trope on top of the rest.
And I'd take that stat with a huge grain of salt. Reported sex assaults do not equal actual sex assaults. The fact that all-women trains are needed to keep female riders safe from unwanted touching, and the constant messaging to speak up if you're a victim, speaks volumes on that front.
I'd also suggest that what many Westerners see as "abnormal" is actually what a lot of locals see as "abnormal" too. It is largely a quirk of law that the portrayals of sex are what they are in Japan, rather than any kind of fundamental variance in cultural mores. The fact the West has appropriated so many terms from Japanese porn, often incorrectly (like "hentai," among others) is a testament to that.
See Matt i just fail to get that "reported" vs "actual" riff. Is not the "actual" what whoever claims it *wants* to be true? IOW nothing more than pure speculation and presumption?
I've spent plenty of time in Japan and have never seen many femmes clamouring to get on the female only carriage!
We are way off topic here so I’ll make this the last I say on this, but it most certainly isn’t speculation. For just one of many examples: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/commentary/2024/04/10/japan/sexual-violence-japan-nhk-survey/
I for one hope the second season veers closer rather than further to the history the fiction is based on. Borrow a bit less CGI and a bit more Taiga Drama.
You’ve written here and in the NYT about the worthiness of the production & performance praise and the re-adaptation to suit a fuller portrayed Japan - and all of that I and most of the world agrees with - but did anyone else catch some of the awkward or clumsy or over the top (or all three) story nubs that could have and probably should have been smoothed over?
- the guy about to kill himself with his big sword in the first episode instead of drowning
- the ham-handedness of setting up and then using earthquakes as a foil
- when Toranaga suddenly gets sick 🤒 and were meant to see it as strategy???
- the swimming / diving off the boat scene to end an episode to bond?
- the slippage at the onsen rocks when Toranaga’s son was trying to kill the Toranaga’s brother?
- Blackthorn going to work on the rock garden after the gardener is killed?
- Mariko’s decision to kill herself by standing in front of the exploding door which, somehow, is supposed to save the others in the room by blowing up her body????
- how sometimes they had to walk from the castle to the Harbor in Osaka but for some weird reason go through a forest???? When it looks like they would just walk through the town?
My guess is that the collective viewed have just let all this wonkiness slide since the show had so much going for it
It’s also possible that I’ve simply drunk too much tea this time and am finally fully out of touch.
There is a lot of editorializing for dramatic effect, that's for sure. William Adams, the model for Blackthorne, didn't get his "Anjin" moniker until well after the events of the book, for another thing.
And I'm just praying the editorialization improves for Season 2 so my eyes get a break from rolling and I can get as immersed in the story as everyone else back home (I'm too new to Japan to have any lukewarm takes about other cultural things but I'll tip my hat to the expertise of the M.Alts of the world and be grateful that with cultural hurdles cleared we can work on narrative tomfoolery next).